*** (16:59:29):Welcome to the Hobson and Holtz Chat Room.
domains says to  (17:01:18):
Hi Neville, Connie + all!nmw here
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:01:25):
Hello everyone
Connie Reece says to  (17:01:29):
I see Brett Pohlman is here -- hello!
chipgriffin says to  (17:02:07):
hello, all!
Luke Armour says to  (17:02:20):
Hello, everyone
Connie Reece says to  (17:02:23):
Hi, Bruno, domains, Chip and everybody else.
neville says to  (17:02:41):
lots of guests here, great. Hi all.
Connie Reece says to  (17:02:48):
I love it -- Gary's Lemonade.
domains says to  (17:03:11):
audio is a little spotty :/
Luke Armour says to  (17:03:13):
Is his connection bad or is it just me?
Krishna De says to  (17:03:16):
Hi Neville - gary's audio was going in and out
domains says to  (17:03:32):
it's Gary's line mainly (I think)
Krishna De says to  (17:03:43):
Hi Connie - I got the email too!
Luke Armour says to  (17:03:49):
If Gary is skyping in, he may need to call back in
Luke Armour says to  (17:03:57):
if it's his cell, well, then...
Connie Reece says to  (17:03:57):
Hey, Krishna - good to see you.
Hobson and Holtz says (17:05:13):
Nice to see you all!
domains says to  (17:06:41):
hmmm - are there international variations WRT "unsolicited" email?
Connie Reece says to  (17:06:42):
Kellye - Good to see you. Your comment on John's post was excellent.
Kellye Crane says to  (17:06:57):
Thanks, Connie - looking forward to this conversation.
domains says to  (17:08:28):
IMHO email is broken anyways (FWIW)
Connie Reece says to  (17:08:36):
@Domains - I think customs and laws WRT to spam/unsolicited email do vary from country to country.
domains says to  (17:09:24):
yes, makes it difficult to "manage", I guess...
Connie Bensen says to  (17:09:24):
Hi Krishna & Connie :)
MikeDriehorst says to  (17:09:35):
Blogger outreach def is about personalization and one-on-one. Need to establish a connection right up front
Connie Reece says to  (17:09:40):
Hey, "other" Connie. :-) So good to be on the program with you.
MichaelAllison says to  (17:09:42):
Hi Connie B. Long time no see.
Connie Bensen says to  (17:09:52):
Hi Mike & Kellye  & Michael!!
MikeDriehorst says to  (17:09:58):
Hey Connie
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:10:08):
@Connie Reece in portugal an email is not spam if it contains opt-out info. Huge mistake on our part...
chipgriffin says to  (17:10:32):
it doesn't strike me this is an ethical issue, it may be an effectiveness one
Connie Reece says to  (17:10:45):
Good point, Chip.
Connie Reece says to  (17:11:16):
IMO, the email was not well written and did not reflect well on Gary, let alone be "best practice."
domains says to  (17:11:20):
background noise :(
Connie Reece says to  (17:11:42):
But it didn't cross any ethical lines.
Hobson and Holtz says (17:11:41):
Background noise is from one of the callers. Nothing we can do at our end, unfortunately.
Hobson and Holtz says (17:12:11):
There you go...Gary's calling in from his car, hence the background noise.
Kellye Crane says to  (17:12:56):
Hi Connie B! Glad you're on the line.
domains says to  (17:13:07):
I'm not in a hurry... :)
Krishna De says to  (17:13:13):
Kaitlyn you need to brief your team globally - I've just received a poorly pitched invite to me as a blogger from your offices in my market this evening :)
Krishna De says to  (17:14:09):
Hi Connie B
domains says to  (17:14:12):
Relevant to what? passion? (find this confusing)
Connie Bensen says to  (17:14:30):
How does one scale a pitch & develop the relationshps?
domains says to  (17:14:49):
what space? what relevance?
domains says to  (17:15:09):
you cannot be relevant everything (ClueTrain MYTH)
MikeDriehorst says to  (17:15:27):
Nice question Domains: "relationships?" whether tradit or soc media, "pitching" is not about mass-pitching
MikeDriehorst says to  (17:15:42):
Very, Very few exceptions.
Hobson and Holtz says (17:15:49):
@domains, who are you asking?
domains says to  (17:15:59):
@Gary ;)
Hobson and Holtz says (17:16:17):
@domains, thanks; I'll ask the question in a bit.
chipgriffin says to  (17:16:56):
this is yet another tempest in a teapot. It doesn't rise to the level of a crisis by any stretch of the imagination
Hobson and Holtz says (17:17:32):
@chipgriffin Wedon't see it as a crisis, just a launching point for a discussion about outreach.
domains says to  (17:17:56):
basically: "You cannot be relevant to everything - so how do you manage relvance ... creating / building relationships that are relevant?"
Kellye Crane says to  (17:18:01):
My question: It seems Gary perceives direct email as the only way to get his message out to large numbers of people. As a social media star, aren't there more effective approaches to reach the masses?
chipgriffin says to  (17:18:02):
I was referencing John's earlier comment about Gary doing a good job on crisis response for this
chipgriffin says to  (17:18:50):
@H+H it is a good discussion to have
domains says to  (17:18:55):
... what is Gary's BASIS of relevance?
Krishna De says to  (17:20:30):
Gary - a different perspectiwhile traffic may not be something that was relevant to John and Connie, there are others iI am sure who would value traffic - and that traffic could be the start of a relationship
chipgriffin says to  (17:21:13):
if 100% of people who receive any pitch are responsive to it, it probably didn't go to enough folks :)
PodcastSteve says to  (17:21:40):
Hey guys, good show so far
Connie Bensen says to  (17:21:54):
my opinion is that traffic is important to all of us - BUT, it's not realistic to use it to motivate people
Krishna De says to  (17:22:03):
Gary -  I responded in a positive way to the person who emailed and they were responsive initially in coming back to me and answering my question.
Paull Young says to  (17:23:59):
howdy all, just jumped in
Connie Reece says to  (17:24:05):
Hey, Paull!
Luke Armour says to  (17:24:11):
Hi, Paully
Paull Young says to  (17:24:17):
and I'm another one who got this pitch :)
David Phillips says to  (17:24:25):
Hi Paul
Connie Reece says to  (17:24:25):
Mr. Account Director at Converseon, Paull Young. *applause*
Paull Young says to  (17:24:35):
haha, thanks Connie! G'day Luke and David
domains says to  (17:24:38):
it's probably  not relevant
domains says to  (17:24:55):
... seems like spam
Connie Reece says to  (17:25:00):
I also got Gary's pitch and went through the very same thought process as John -- he outlined it in the comments.
Connie Bensen says to  (17:25:10):
my suggestion is to not offer/promise something that can't be delivered - ie: traffic
Connie Reece says to  (17:25:47):
A very short pitch w/ a link to video from Gary would have been more effective and less likely to be perceived as spammy.
domains says to  (17:26:10):
better is *pulling* in traffic (on relevant domains ;)
Paull Young says to  (17:26:19):
on a different topic: who in this chat room got the world's worst pitch from Ketchum last week? Hopenhagen?
David Phillips says to  (17:26:55):
lol... yes I did...
domains says to  (17:27:09):
Gary: What's your basis for relevance?
Paull Young says to  (17:27:12):
blogger outreach for scale: not something I agree with
chipgriffin says to  (17:27:21):
ultimately the pitch email worked. John wrote about Gary and got others talking about him and his book. It may not have been perfect, but it did successfully initiate a conversation, which was apparently part of the goal
Paull Young says to  (17:27:40):
Why couldn't Gary just publish a video with the sentiment in the email he outsourced?
Paull Young says to  (17:27:51):
it would have reached us all anyhow... and been more compelling and authentic
domains says to  (17:27:54):
talk, talk -- it's only talk (King Crimson, Indisciple ;)
chipgriffin says to  (17:28:01):
@paull then people need to find the video, he's trying to go beyond his usual suspects
Connie Reece says to  (17:28:01):
Paull -- Gary said that in hindsight, that's what he should have done.
Paull Young says to  (17:28:05):
ah cool
Paull Young says to  (17:28:08):
makes sense!
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:28:23):
5 thousand emails a day is over 200 emails an hour...
Paull Young says to  (17:28:23):
you gotta love listening/watching Gary, it's his greatest strength
Paull Young says to  (17:28:31):
bottom line: You can't outsource relationships
Connie Reece says to  (17:28:41):
Bingo, Paull!
chipgriffin says to  (17:28:56):
Gary's right .... he needed to introduce himself better
Connie Reece says to  (17:29:05):
I think Gary has learned a lot from this -- and as a result of this conversation, a lot of others will learn more too.
domains says to  (17:29:19):
yes relationships are not something that can be traded for market prices
MichaelAllison says to  (17:29:45):
I watched Episode 1 of wine library last night. MUCH different energy from Gary now.
David Phillips says to  (17:29:51):
Bruno is presenting a paper about relationships at Bled next week
Paull Young says to  (17:30:08):
Sacha Baron Cohen Bruno?
chipgriffin says to  (17:30:14):
@domains @paull you can't outsource relationships, but you also can't just keep talking in the echo chamber, so you need to be able to move beyond that, with at least some sort of scale
Paull Young says to  (17:30:17):
be careful if he comes in from the ceiling...
domains says to  (17:30:48):
@chip -- you need RELEVANT FORUMS :)
David Phillips says to  (17:30:51):
yup... about listening
Paull Young says to  (17:31:52):
blogger outreach with a goal of traffic and reach just skims the surface of what is possible
chipgriffin says to  (17:32:03):
@domains unfortunately relevant is ultimately in the eye of the beholder and the pitcher and recipient can both perceive it differently -- without either being "wrong"
Kellye Crane says to  (17:32:05):
Connie R- I agree. This is a good learning experience for Gary, and rest of us benefit from the convo too.
David Phillips says to  (17:32:23):
Yes Paull.... I agree.
Luke Armour says to  (17:32:43):
I'd like to see Gary do what he says - do a better job of what he did. That would be a case study for a lot of us
Paull Young says to  (17:32:47):
at my shop I've largely stopped us doing outreach on behalf of clients - think I have a different view to most of the industry on this
domains says to  (17:32:53):
Relevance cannot be UNIVERSAL - it needs to be specific... the relevance needs to be specified ( http://gaggle.info/post/180/context-is-queen )
Connie Reece says to  (17:33:04):
Paull - would like to talk to you more about your view on that.
Paull Young says to  (17:33:25):
my pleasure Connie, was talking about it a bit on a blogger relations panel @ New Comm Forum
chipgriffin says to  (17:33:36):
@domains but relevance need not be 1-on-1. It can be segments
Hobson and Holtz says (17:33:53):
@Paull Young I'd love it if you'd call in and talk about that point of view.
Paull Young says to  (17:34:11):
righto, will look up the number
Paull Young says to  (17:34:17):
and swallow this mouthful of pad thai
Paull Young says to  (17:34:18):
;)
David Phillips says to  (17:34:19):
Chip... I think its about having common values. Hence the paper at Bled
MikeDriehorst says to  (17:34:25):
Am sure this could be good topic, but not in this format, speakers. Sounds like Gary is perpetually defending and justifying his work.
chipgriffin says to  (17:34:42):
@paull if you don't do outreach, how do people hear about your clients? You may just be doing a different kind of outreach, but I'll be curious to hear more
MikeDriehorst says to  (17:34:53):
Enjoy. Maybe chime back in on the recorded version. Great day to all
domains says to  (17:34:54):
@chip yes, relevance = TOPOS :)
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:35:24):
relevance can be a dodgy concept. relevant to what? the goals of the blog?
chipgriffin says to  (17:35:24):
@DavidPhillips But Gary believes that fellow bloggers have common values. Again, it comes down to perception of pitcher and recipient
Hobson and Holtz says (17:35:43):
Call-in number is +1-347-324-3723
Krishna De says to  (17:36:04):
Nevill - I am on the line
David Phillips says to  (17:36:40):
@Chip values are quite complex. My value may be different to yours...and that is the real key... some might say empathy...
domains says to  (17:36:56):
@Bruno -- exactly! (universal relevance was a cluetrain hoax)
chipgriffin says to  (17:37:12):
@David I agree. But it is impossible to know someone's values before you have a relationship with them. The relationship needs to be attempted first
chipgriffin says to  (17:37:22):
@David I like Gary's cocktail party analogy
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:37:43):
Harry Reis, from a psychology point of view, talks about the perception on how our message is received in the way we establish relationships
domains says to  (17:37:54):
not everybody
domains says to  (17:38:09):
(not all the people all the time)
Hobson and Holtz says (17:38:10):
@Paull Young I see you on the switchboard -- with you when Gary drops off.
David Phillips says to  (17:38:17):
@Chip ... yes that is why listening is good... the cocktail party is not a bad example
Paull Young says to  (17:38:26):
no worries mate!
Connie Bensen says to  (17:38:29):
the recipient of the email needs to feel connected to the request
chipgriffin says to  (17:39:34):
@David I agree listening is good, but it isn't realistic to study a person fully before pitching them. You need to look at a reasonable set of data points to begin to move forward
Hobson and Holtz says (17:40:01):
@Krishna Are you on Skype?
Krishna De says to  (17:40:09):
yes
Hobson and Holtz says (17:40:18):
Okay -- with you in a sec, then Paull
chipgriffin says to  (17:40:36):
@Connie I agree except the sender has no way of knowing if the recipient will feel connected. We all do our best to achieve that, butwith varying success (just follow this conversation here! :)
Connie Bensen says to  (17:41:56):
I agree w/ Krishna that I overlooked the traffic aspect
domains says to  (17:43:04):
I guess Krishna is saying blog as "context" (relevant context)
David Phillips says to  (17:43:16):
comments. Create relationships based on common values.
David Phillips says to  (17:43:29):
@domains.... yes
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:43:34):
good point, different people have different levels of receptiveness to new relationships
Kellye Crane says to  (17:45:33):
G'day. :-)
Connie Reece says to  (17:45:47):
Don't you love listening to Paull? :-)
David Phillips says to  (17:46:20):
agreed.....
domains says to  (17:47:00):
that's a limitation of the current state of technology -- very astute
Krishna De says to  (17:47:18):
I think the big question that Gary has posed we have not answered for him - how to get mass connections - he seems to have a bigger vision on impact that many people would dream of
neville says to  (17:47:25):
Excellent views, Paull.
Kellye Crane says to  (17:47:31):
Right- let the group self-identify. Permission versus interruption.
Paull Young says to  (17:47:40):
Thanks Neville!
domains says to  (17:47:44):
see also http://gaggle.info/miscellaneous/articles/wisdom-of-the-language (how domains / sites create context)
David Phillips says to  (17:47:54):
and the ROI is less
Paull Young says to  (17:47:56):
great Clay Shirky quote on this
Paull Young says to  (17:48:16):
"A blog with a dozen readers doesn't have a small audience... it doesn't have an audience at all, what it has is friends"
Paull Young says to  (17:48:34):
relationships and trust - much, much, much deeper than influence by numbers
chipgriffin says to  (17:48:41):
self-identification sounds great until you realize that people need to know something exists before they can identify themselves ... and that necessarily comes from some form of outreach
MichaelAllison says to  (17:48:48):
@paullyoung heh...I guess I have at least 13 friends. One is my mom.
Krishna De says to  (17:48:50):
Feels like ary wants to book into everyones hands as he feels it is relevant for everyone - like Heinz and ketchup in every household
Paull Young says to  (17:48:54):
totally Chip, it'll be part of the mix
Paull Young says to  (17:48:58):
maybe paid ads too
Paull Young says to  (17:49:11):
maybe you can activate those who have opted in, to identify more people in their niche
Paull Young says to  (17:49:13):
lots of options
chipgriffin says to  (17:49:51):
@paull but you still need the seed members, which you get from some form of outreach (either theirs or yours) at some point in the past
domains says to  (17:50:00):
@Krishna universal relevance -- like a bible ;)
Kellye Crane says to  (17:50:00):
Good point, Chip- I think someone of Gary's stature has more options that a small fry.
chipgriffin says to  (17:50:02):
Ultimately, all relationships stem from outreach
Paull Young says to  (17:50:06):
Gary has thousands of seed members...
michellegreer says to  (17:50:09):
i would retweet something from someone who had an established reputation online, even if they don't engage me by tweeting to me earlier
Paull Young says to  (17:50:18):
because he created great content and built a community
michellegreer says to  (17:50:21):
it's about providing value for your audience
David Phillips says to  (17:50:21):
@chi @paull one of the things the research that Bruno has done show that there is magnetic effect when values chime between actors
Paull Young says to  (17:50:47):
mom bloggers - there is so much payola in that niche form PR agencies these days imo
David Phillips says to  (17:50:51):
its not quite 'publish it and they will come' but close
michellegreer says to  (17:51:02):
and the big issue w garyvee is it's more about his influence in the social media space instead of the wine space
Krishna De says to  (17:51:12):
Kaitlyn -  think there may be fatigue in the US but not so in other countries where blogger outreach is in it's infancy
domains says to  (17:51:18):
Bloggers need to give up the idea of "individual" - and move towards the idea of SHARED language / context
michellegreer says to  (17:51:26):
if you are passionate about wine, talk about the wine, not the medium.
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:51:28):
@Paul you can find out other niche blogs with ease, but being introduced makes things much smoother because of the receptiveness factor
Connie Bensen says to  (17:51:58):
I suggest - meet people as people first - rather than be concerned w/ 'influencers'
domains says to  (17:53:06):
TBH I find Gary's entusiasm ver ENGAGING + INSPIRING
Connie Bensen says to  (17:53:33):
it is - how does one translate that into an email?
domains says to  (17:54:01):
 Bloggers need to give up the idea of "individual" - and 
move towards the idea of SHARED language / context
Connie Bensen says to  (17:54:05):
translate that enthusiasm so he can connect with new people?
David Phillips says to  (17:54:13):
Connie, there is a great power curve that shows that the 'A' list has reach but half way down the network effect has huge reach
domains says to  (17:54:36):
STRONG COMMITMENT to SHARED LANGUAGE -- finding the COMMON  ground
michellegreer says to  (17:54:37):
@garyvee honestly i wish you would promote the "wine" lifestyle more than the social media one.  this space isn't healthy--bloggers are exhausted and i get so tired of feeling "required" to go to conferences.
Luke Armour says to  (17:54:43):
Thanks to everyone for participating in this
Luke Armour says to  (17:54:44):
great show
David Phillips says to  (17:54:44):
Its the difference between broadcast and engagment
Connie Bensen says to  (17:54:46):
yes - I agree @David - I am not an A lister & I have more time
Paull Young says to  (17:54:51):
I like David Armano's 'influence ripples' as a good representation of how to view communities
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:55:04):
@domains Mike Wesch presented is view that the youtube community shows two different sets of values community and individual values http://www.youtube.com/user/mwesch
domains says to  (17:55:05):
So for Gary, that means WINE is HIS language
Paull Young says to  (17:55:10):
concentric, multi-layered circles, deeply interlinked - not a top to bottom 'list'
Kellye Crane says to  (17:55:13):
Agree Neville. Appreciate Gary's willingness to have the discussion.
David Phillips says to  (17:55:39):
@Paull ... agree
Connie Bensen says to  (17:56:04):
I was impressed with how Gary personally thanked me by email for a simple comment on a blog post - he is real
Paull Young says to  (17:56:11):
http://darmano.typepad.com/logic_emotion/2006/08/influence_rippl_1.html
domains says to  (17:56:29):
will chaeck that out, @Bruno, thanks :)
Connie Reece says to  (17:56:36):
Gary's passion is absolutely contagious; unfortunately, it didn't come through in the initial email that sparked this discussion.
domains says to  (17:56:54):
@Gary need to find the SHARED language (meme)
Paull Young says to  (17:57:08):
ask those who do opt in to reach out to their audiences on your behalf
Paull Young says to  (17:57:12):
I'm sure they'd be happy to :)
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:57:18):
@David guess we can replace shared language with shared values ;)
David Phillips says to  (17:57:35):
@Bruno yes we can
Connie Reece says to  (17:57:46):
But what a great discussion that email started. This has been very good to hear and participate in.
domains says to  (17:58:03):
forget the individual -- it's the TOPIC (context) that matters
David Phillips says to  (17:58:06):
but there is some danger here... the language has cultures.
Kellye Crane says to  (17:58:29):
@Paul - I've always liked that the influence ripples show how smaller blogs can influence the big ones. It doesn't just go in one direction (as you say).
chipgriffin says to  (17:58:34):
Gary's strength is video, so it is a natural outlet for him even when pitching
Connie Bensen says to  (17:58:46):
and Gary was empowering an employee - and ppl make mistakes.. it's ok
Paull Young says to  (17:58:46):
@kellye - absolutely spot on
Paull Young says to  (17:58:51):
because influence happens in context
domains says to  (17:58:57):
@David - that is its relevance
Paull Young says to  (17:58:58):
and from the outside you can't predict that
domains says to  (17:59:19):
... e.g. professional Jargon
MichaelAllison says to  (17:59:20):
Remember Scott Monty's snowblower thing? He sent out a video to everyone who donated.
Connie Bensen says to  (17:59:21):
was great chatting with you all!
Paull Young says to  (17:59:31):
great show!
Krishna De says to  (17:59:34):
Shel, Neville - really appreciate you facilitating this
michellegreer says to  (17:59:38):
ok this conversation is too meta for me.  @garyvee if you want to hit up cork and company here in austin, look me up.  peace!
Connie Reece says to  (17:59:39):
Thank you so much for this opportunity. Great program.
David Phillips says to  (17:59:42):
Fab... Thanks
Bruno Amaral says to  (17:59:56):
that was a very short hour
David Phillips says to  (17:59:56):
how many like minds can you get in one place
Connie Reece says to  (18:00:01):
And thanks especially to Gary!
David Phillips says to  (18:00:05):
agreed
Kellye Crane says to  (18:00:17):
Thanks all!
Connie Bensen says to  (18:00:28):
have a great weekend! :)
Luke Armour says to  (18:00:35):
Thanks everyone, again